From: co-westminster@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:37 AM To: co-westminster@yahoogroups.com Subject: [co-westminster] Digest Number 115 -To unsubscribe via e-mail, send an empty e-mail to: co-westminster-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 3 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Chp.IV Sect.3 From: Harry Ludwig 2. Re: Chp.IV Sect.3 From: "Richard Bacon" 3. Re: Chp.IV Sect.3 From: "Dr. Chuck Baynard" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:49:32 -0700 From: Harry Ludwig Subject: Chp.IV Sect.3 Dear Bros: Is it alright to ask questions, too? And, though I am keeping pace with the reading, I have query regarding a question on a previous chapter. "How did Calvin use the term 'God's will' in this section? Do you think it is a correct way of speaking?" My text - Beveridge - says "...not observing that true religion must be conformable to the will of God as its unerring standard;..." My answer was: Calvin used the term in reference to the measurement of 'true religion.' It is a correct way of speaking, if we take Calvin to mean that 'true religion' must conform to the reveletaion of God's will in Scripture (and, in some more general aspects, nature). Am I understanding this properly? (I only have a high school education.) I assume he is using 'God's will' as apposed to 'man's will.' Man's will being how man thinks he might honour God. Though I have read the first two books and parts of the third and fourth, I can't recall if Calvin might use this term differently elsewhere. Perhaps, I am over analyzing :-) Your Servant in Christ Jesus, Harry Ludwig (wondering why there is so little discussion, and hoping to contribute more and better posts) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:05:48 -0000 From: "Richard Bacon" Subject: Re: Chp.IV Sect.3 Dear Mr Ludwig, --- In co-westminster@y..., Harry Ludwig wrote: > Is it alright to ask questions, too? By all means. I had hoped there would be more interaction to be quite frank. > Am I understanding this properly? Yes, I think so. Calvin seems to be contrasting the "whims" of men to the "will" of God. And as you then point out, > I assume he is using 'God's will' as apposed to 'man's will.' > Man's will being how man thinks he might honour God. Calvin opposes a couple of things, I think. One is devising a "god" of our own imagining. He clearly indicates that even though the true and living God reveals himself sufficiently in nature to know him, yet men attempt to change him into something he is not. But secondly, men think that they can please God by doing things that are not according to his will. Thus man's ignorance is really a "culpable" ignorance because men have thrown off the true knowledge of God and his will. > Perhaps, I am over analyzing :-) Can't say that you are doing so, sir. Our reason for going at a predetermined pace is partly so we can analyze what it is we're reading. Thank you for your contribution to that end. Richard Bacon FPCR Rowlett, TX ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:35:53 -0500 From: "Dr. Chuck Baynard" Subject: Re: Chp.IV Sect.3 Daring to speak for the group leader, questions are what cause reflection and learning from a study like this... The complete context of the portion you quote is "They deem it enough that they have some kind of zeal for religion, how preposterous soever it may be, not observing that true religion must be conformable to the will of God as its unerring standard;" Having read the whole through several times (I have a long learning curve) my take is that when we speak of the will of God we are speaking of Scripture and thus the only rule of faith and practice. Nature reveals God, not the specifics of God's will. Thus nature leads all to know they should worship God (Rom. 1) nature will not bring salvation because it doesn't reveal the will of God. This is a portion of how we reach the RegulativePrinciple of Worship (RPW) whereby we may only worship God as God has commanded in Scripture, any other addition being of our imagination and emotions. Thus in this particular reference Calvin to me is saying, "forget what you think, forget what you feel, what does the Bible say?" I am not sure every use of the term in the Institutes fits this exactly off the tip of the tongue. But then with any term it can have shades of meaning and nuance depending on the context. However I don't think seeing God's will as the Scriptures -- as a plumbline would lead to error in any context. In an aside: Education is not the key to understanding Calvin, he wrote the Institutes for the layman. Hold Calvin in one hand, the Bible in the other and bathe both in prayer, the understanding will come in time as we diligently apply ourselves to both texts. Dr. Bacon chose the right term, slow read in beginning this study. Chuck Baynard, LLD, ThD 1st EPC Clover, SC www.cloverepc.org Church -- check out our new Bible lessons www.christianobserver.org The Christian observer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Ludwig" To: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 1:49 AM Subject: [co-westminster] Chp.IV Sect.3 > Dear Bros: > > Is it alright to ask questions, too? > And, though I am keeping pace with the reading, I have query regarding a > question on a previous chapter. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/