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Discussion of George Gillespie's Wholesome Severity Reconciled with Christian Liberty

Re: I do not know how to respond to my e-mail from you guys?

Subject: Re: I do not know how to respond to my e-mail from you guys?
From: "Gus Gianello" 
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 01:40:37 -0400

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Dear Johnny,
You will forgive me, if I take some umbrage at the way you expressed =
yourself.  You left a very loud implication that the rest of us =
"Presbyterian intellectuals" dont think the Bible is good enough for us. =
 Let me disabuse you immediately.  We "Presbyterian intellectuals" take =
the Bible far more seriously than the noble Christian savage who sits in =
the pew and likes to read out of the Good News Version.  We go to the =
trouble of learning Greek and Hebrew, we do research in original =
languages, and we study to show ourselves approved.
Please, please, please, do not assume that because a man believes in a =
confession as a substandard that such belief in any way takes away from =
the authority of God's Word.  We have all, we "Presbyterian =
intellectuals" come to the conclusion that the Westminster Confession =
with the Catechisms is the clearest and most systematic exposition of =
what the Bible teaches.  We disagree with it only reluctantly, and then =
after much thought.  why?  Because we have hundreds of years of good =
solid scholarship to lean on in understanding Scripture.  Great men of =
God were involved in the confession, including the redoubtable George =
Gillespie.  Have a little more respect for Reformed church history.  No =
one likes people who laugh at the graves of great ancestors!
As to Jesus, the Romans and civil government, you are quite wrong.  He =
did say the Roman civil government ought to be changed to a biblical =
one.  The fact that you do not recognize the the words of Jesus have =
that intent is unfortunate, but does not in any way affect the argument. =
 when Jesus says in Mark 7 that a son that curses father or mother MUST =
be put to death, he was referring to Mosaic law, NOT roman law.
Besides, do you believe that only the words of Jesus are inspired?  How =
about the apostle Paul in Rom 13? Is that less inspired because the =
words aren't in red in your bible?  Excuse my sarcasm, but I get a =
little tired of the insinuation that I am arrogant just because I like =
to use my brain.  I think God meant it for more that to fill the space =
between my ears.
I encourage you to "go by the Bible" and answer with Scripture.  We =
"highbrow Presbyterian intellectuals" will try to handle that.  We =
promise not to burn you at the stake for quoting bible.  We might even =
do a bit of it ourselves.  But, please, dont be surprised if you get =
bible, and lots of it, quoted right back at you.
As to your view that the reformers were wrong about Paul and the law, I =
dont really understand what you mean---though I hesitate to ask.  If you =
can be more specific, that would be great. HOW were they wrong?
Salutations and Greetings, from a "highbrow Presbyterian intellectual".
Rev. Gus Gianello
(Motto of a 20th century Confucian Evangelical:  He who uses brain shall =
be presumed arrogant until proven humble.  ESPECIALLY if he used big =
words of more that two syllables.
 ----
From: Jonny Keen 
To: westminster@fpcr.org
Date:  4 May, 1997 11:15 PM
Subject: WF: I do not know how to respond to my e-mail from you guys?

Dear Westminster Forum-I find the stuff I have been receiving from you
interesting but I do not how to comment on it? I read your instructions
but it all left me in the dark. I also am not one of your highbrow
Presbyterian intellectuals-I go to the Bible so if I do comment on what
you are sending me I will not back it up with man's thinking-Reformed
Theology-the Westminster Standards etc. . . I close only saying I do
not find the Reformers correct on their view of Paul and the Law. I
think we need to rethink-examine what the apostle Paul has to say about
the Mosaic Covenant in the New Age/New Covenant-also are we to pattern
secular governments after the civil government of ancient Israel? I do
not read in the Gospels the Lord Jesus telling the Romans they needed to
pattern their civil government after the Mosaic Covenant-it seems God
thought the people of God should leave the Roman civil government in
place and not set up a goverment pattern after the Mosaic Covenant-the
Torah. Well I close-Jonny


--
Westminster mailing list.
Dick Bacon, Moderator pastor@fpcr.org
Chris Coldwell, Webmaster naphtali@naphtali.com


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Dear Johnny,

You will forgive me, if I take some umbrage at the way you expressed=20 yourself. You left a very loud implication that the rest of us=20 "Presbyterian intellectuals" dont think the Bible is good = enough for=20 us. Let me disabuse you immediately. We "Presbyterian = intellectuals"=20 take the Bible far more seriously than the noble Christian savage who = sits in=20 the pew and likes to read out of the Good News Version. We go to the = trouble of=20 learning Greek and Hebrew, we do research in original languages, and we = study to=20 show ourselves approved.

Please, please, please, do not assume that because a man believes in = a=20 confession as a substandard that such belief in any way takes away from = the=20 authority of God's Word. We have all, we "Presbyterian = intellectuals"=20 come to the conclusion that the Westminster Confession with the = Catechisms is=20 the clearest and most systematic exposition of what the Bible teaches. = We=20 disagree with it only reluctantly, and then after much thought. why? = Because=20 we have hundreds of years of good solid scholarship to lean on in = understanding=20 Scripture. Great men of God were involved in the confession, including = the=20 redoubtable George Gillespie. Have a little more respect for Reformed = church=20 history. No one likes people who laugh at the graves of great = ancestors!

As to Jesus, the Romans and civil government, you are quite wrong. = He did=20 say the Roman civil government ought to be changed to a biblical one. = The fact=20 that you do not recognize the the words of Jesus have that intent is=20 unfortunate, but does not in any way affect the argument. when Jesus = says in=20 Mark 7 that a son that curses father or mother MUST be put to death, he = was=20 referring to Mosaic law, NOT roman law.

Besides, do you believe that only the words of Jesus are inspired? = How about=20 the apostle Paul in Rom 13? Is that less inspired because the words = aren't in=20 red in your bible? Excuse my sarcasm, but I get a little tired of the=20 insinuation that I am arrogant just because I like to use my brain. I = think God=20 meant it for more that to fill the space between my ears.

I encourage you to "go by the Bible" and answer with = Scripture. We=20 "highbrow Presbyterian intellectuals" will try to handle that. = We=20 promise not to burn you at the stake for quoting bible. We might even = do a bit=20 of it ourselves. But, please, dont be surprised if you get bible, and = lots of=20 it, quoted right back at you.

As to your view that the reformers were wrong about Paul and the law, = I dont=20 really understand what you mean---though I hesitate to ask. If you can = be more=20 specific, that would be great. HOW were they wrong?

Salutations and Greetings, from a "highbrow Presbyterian=20 intellectual".

Rev. Gus Gianello

(Motto of a 20th century Confucian Evangelical: He who uses brain = shall be=20 presumed arrogant until proven humble. ESPECIALLY if he used big words = of more=20 that two syllables.

----

From: Jonny Keen <jonny@freenet.macatawa.org>

To: westminster@fpcr.org

Date:  4 May, 1997 11:15 PM

Subject: WF: I do not know how to respond to my e-mail from you =
guys?

Dear Westminster Forum-I find the stuff I =
have been=20
receiving from you

interesting but I do not how to comment on it? I read your =
instructions

but it all left me in the dark. I also am not one of your highbrow

Presbyterian intellectuals-I go to the Bible so if I do comment on =
what

you are sending me I will not back it up with man's =
thinking-Reformed

Theology-the Westminster Standards etc. . . I close only saying I do

not find the Reformers correct on their view of Paul and the Law. I

think we need to rethink-examine what the apostle Paul has to say =
about

the Mosaic Covenant in the New Age/New Covenant-also are we to =
pattern

secular governments after the civil government of ancient Israel? I =
do

not read in the Gospels the Lord Jesus telling the Romans they needed =
to

pattern their civil government after the Mosaic Covenant-it seems =
God

thought the people of God should leave the Roman civil government in

place and not set up a goverment pattern after the Mosaic =
Covenant-the

Torah. Well I close-Jonny





--

Westminster mailing list.

Dick Bacon, Moderator pastor@fpcr.org

Chris Coldwell, Webmaster naphtali@naphtali.com

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